Another navicular question from me !read about barefoot trimming but i believe that's not for my horse.?

i can see the principal in it and its a great idea ( i go barefoot behind by the way ) but his fore feet would be too sore he does not like stones with shoes on even. i was woudering about taking the front shoes off to get all the benefits and ride him in old macs or easy riders?? i have no experiance of using these boots as to which are the best ect etc. if things went well can you compete in them , although i am happy to become a happy hacker. my horses wellbeing comes first

Another navicular question from me !read about barefoot trimming but i believe that's not for my horse.?
If your horse is sore on stones WITH shoes - it means he has a pretty serious hoof problem. Healthy feet should cope with stones if they are conditioned to them.


I don't want to get into a detailed explanation of the damage that shoes do but, the simple and inescapable fact is that they do cause the feet to contract. All farriers know this - they leave the bars long because they slow the contraction. When you see a non-contracted hoof you realise that most horses feet are contracted.


The best thing you can do is read as much as you can about the matter - so you can make up your own mind; see if you can find a good barefoot trimmer - or a farrier who is sympathetic to barefoot principles - and have them take a look at your horse.


I'd bet he's got contracted heels and overgrown bars and needs to get his heels comfortable so he doesn't land toe first.


Boots can be a help in the transition from shoeing - again a barefoot trimmer should be able to help you with the right type and fitting of a boot. Some people event in Old Macs although my horse walks in them like he's got gumboots on. The hope is that if you can get the heels comfortable eventually he won't need them. And - if his feet are sore, he'll need time to grow a good foot - so competing would be out for a bit anyway.


Anyway -hacking is good for the soul - and the sole - :)





Can you post photos of his feet on photobucket?





**EDIT**





Can you get some decent photos of the sole - and also a body shot? Standing on level ground - just as he prefers to stand normally - photo should show hoof/pastern and shoulder angle.


The side shot shows a curved hairline which indicates under-run heels (and that's rather oddly placed clip). Under-run heels look low but they are in fact high heels that have collapsed and run under the foot towards the midline. Heels like this are always accompanied by bars that are sitting across the sole in the heel region and very probably under the frog as well. This creates pressure points which are painful - - the horse unloads the heel and that starts up a number of hoof problems and and related muscular-skeletal issues.


How old is the horse? What's his lifestyle?





Edit 2


Definitely very contracted heels - - so the bars will be deformed as well. I can't see the heel / bar turning point or the collateral groove clearly enough to comment on the length or straightness of the bars but in a healthy non-contracted hoof, the hairline above the bulbs should be flat - not shaped like a W.


He looks well covered - is he a little cresty?


Horses which don't have comfortable feet hold themselves in a braced position and this leads to muscle tightness and in the long term to muscle over-development or atrophy.


Just to give you something to work on - the dorsal angle of the front pedal bone is 45 degrees; there should be a harmonic angle between hoof and pastern - ie at rest the pastern angle should be 45 degrees. This slope is reflected in the shoulder angle which allows the withers to be correctly positioned. If the horse has pain in the heel it lifts it off the ground fractionally which slackens the deep digital flexor tendon; to take up the slack in the tendon the horse tightens the extensor muscles - and ultimately steepens its shoulder angle - this moves the withers forward and pushes the horse onto its forehand; stride is shortened and, as all the major muscles of the neck and back anchor at the withers, it eventually causes serious muscular problems.


To judge correct conformation - draw a straight line from the highest point of the wither to the ground; it should run behind the elbow and touch the back of the knee and fetlock and touch the ground half a hoof's length behind the heel.


Any variation on that means he is not standing in balance.


But he's young - and with good hoof care will be fine.


Check out the barefoot websites - Strasser trimmers are the best trained for remedial work.
Reply:take off teh shoes and leave the horse in pasture, his feet will toughen up, don't expect to go riding big stones for a while, but you can trail ride him in non stony areas can't you?





by the fact his V groove is thin shows contraction, my horses always were barefoot after I bought them and their V groove was always a bit wide, (easier to keep clean and avoid thrush) after being without shoes for a while.





I have seen people use those rubber shoes (that you use a screwdriver on to pop on and off) on them when they ride and take them off afterwards that way the feet gradually get toughened up before you ride barefoot. i had bought one of those shoes because my horse had hurt herself on a nail, adn I wanted to see how they go on and off and how they worked.





kind of hard for me to get it on from the back of the foot, used a screwdriver to pull the rubber back and pop on, used that same screwdriver to pop it off. it had a pop down strap that tightened it to hold it on. I did have to trim off some of the rubber in the back of the foot because it was to high rubbing her bottom of her pastern so the rubber only reached up to it but not over it or on it if you understand me.





RRRR
Reply:What you need to do is build up a thick callus sole, start by lunging lots in a round pen with a good sand base. Then start walking him up and down a gravel lane way or not so busy road. But before you do this have a farrier inspect his feet to see if there is any problems
Reply:You have a handsome horse there he is lovely.





If it is Navicular (sounds like it could be) then you will have to have sepcial remedial shoes, maybe a T Bar shoe would help as it will raise the underside of his foot off the ground!!





I would have a word with your farrier.





Best of luck





xx
Reply:I would say if he has navicular, he would need specialist shoes so no, barefoot would not be an option. Easy Riders would not offer the correct support that remedial shoeing would. Please talk to your farrier before making this desicion
Reply:This is very much a horse-by-horse problem. You really need to talk specifically with your vet and your farrier about the horse and his unique needs. I've known many naviuclar horses that go just fine barefoot and being ridden in Old Mac's... I've known others that cannot tolerate being barefoot, and need shoes and even wedge pads to keep pressure off their heels.





The one I own, I tried much special shoeing with, in conjuction with a nationally recognized farrier that does lectures and clinics on special needs foot care, and a nationally recognized lameness vet. I tried for months with special shoes, all different types, rocked shoes, wedge pads, no pads, flat pads, egg bar, the list goes on - I was even considering trying plastic glue-on "sneaker" shoes. The horse was never sound through all of this. One day, the horse clipped himself and pulled one shoe. I took the other one off while I awaited the farrier to be able to come out. 3 days later, the horse was sound. I cancelled the farrier and have left him barefoot ever since. We've allowed his heel to grow naturally and just trim his toes back and his sides. He's comfortable and sound enough that he could be lightly ridden if other issues didn't prevent that. He is 23-ish years old. He also has been seen by 11 vets, and I've been told by 9 of them, that his navicular bones are the worst ones they've ever seen. They are paper thin, riddled with holes, and very much heading towards the end of their life span.





There is no one way to say for sure how your horse in particular will handle different methods. Medications may help releive pain, and special shoeing, regular shoeing, no shoeing, or boots, may all help or hinder, depending on the horse. The overall goal is to limit the pressure the horse puts on his heels.





Denerving him will keep the pain away, but if he steps on a stone, you won't know it, because he won't feel it. Denerving does not cure navicular, and the special shoeing may still need to be used to keep him from breaking down more, and not feeling it.





Properly maintained navicular horses are ridden every day, competing in jumpers, hunters, reining, you name it.








aaand... speaking of farrier care... you need to find a new one. Just took a look at your photos. The one is too blurry to see anything, but the other one, holy cow! The horse has almost no heel, and his shoes are in major need of being replaced! They are way too thin and worn down.!
Reply:I use a KC Lapierre trimmer, you can google for one, they don't do ANYTHING drastic and can supply you with great padded inserts for your horses boots which will make him think he is trotting on grass when hes on the road. My horses have all been barefoot years, but still benefit from boots now and then in winter when their feet are soft. I would say, try it, what can you lose, you can always put the shoes back on
Reply:has your horse been diagnosed with navicular? try eggbar shoes or shoes with raised heels to relieve pressure on heels and flexor tendons and i dont think you should be competing on him, gentle exersize on soft ground to help blood circulation.
Reply:Sounds like a good idea. After a while without shoes, his hooves will start to harden up, and yes, get the Old Mac boots. You can compete in them. I'm not sure about competing with them in horse shows, but I know that you can in endurance riding. I was planning to buy my white hoofed Arabian pony those boots, but decided against it after hearing the farrier complain about how hard and nearly impossible it was to trim Mc's hooves. Clearly my boy doesn't need them, but I know people who do use them and have no problem at all with them.
Reply:I agree with the person who said this is a horse by horse issue. My horses are barefoot, however I recently got a Paint horse who I may need to put shoes one. He has been barefoot for 3 years and has the softest feet I have ever encountered. I rasp my horses feet bi-weekly if I am not riding them and can tell how hard they are by how easy they rasp. I just purchased "Easy Rider" boots for him. I have never had a horse I needed to get boots for. We are going to see if this works before I go get shoes on him. I love the Easy Riders. The only thing I am not 100% sold on is that they will rub a sore on his pasterns where they flop up and down. I recently purchased ankle wraps but haven't had a chance to use them to see if they help. Now when I ride it is out on the trail and for 3-4 hours at a time. Good luck with whatever you decide.



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