Spooky mare, likes to buck and run off...its breaking my confidence!?

I ride a 17 yr old 17 hh TB mare weekdays becuase her owner only rides weekends. Although I prefer a horse I can trust and have fun with, I do have exp. and the ability to ride more "diffiucult" (hard to figure out) horses. This mare isnt "green" and isnt what Id callI "hot," but what I'd consider stupid. Shes unpredictable and becoming a chore to rider. She frequently gets tense, breaks into a huge canter and bucks. You cant pull her up because she balls up, bucks more and scoots, so I must push her forward, but she gets so fast shes incontrollable. Shes ridden in a rubber mouth snaffle because her owner says she was trained with draw reins and gets aggrivated with too much pressure or any other bit. she gets so nervous you can feel her heart pounding through your boots when your on her. sometimes things scare her, somethings they dont. not new things, she just sees boogy men. shes physically sound and has great care. i work her with a trainer, its just what she does, to her owner too

Spooky mare, likes to buck and run off...its breaking my confidence!?
Since you're not the owner, your hands are kind of tied in changing some things that might help her behavior. If you were the owner, here are a few things to try:





1. Cut back on grain. If she is in good health, if the vet doesn't have her on a certain diet or type of grain for a certain reason, then I would not be giving this horse grain. Period. More hay, perhaps, to keep her weight up, or free grazing all day....but not grain.





2. More excercise before riding. Lunge her for at least fifteen minutes at a trot and canter to take the edge off of her energy.





3. Keep her in a snaffle bit, but I think I'd prefer just a plain ring snaffle without the rubber. Work with her in an arena on lateral flexion and turning her head and neck willingly to the reins both sides.





4. When riding, if she attempts anything I have not asked of her, I would bend her into a small circle and ask her to disengage her hindquarters, preventing a buck or run. Circle once or twice, depending on her attitude...then ride on out of the circle and continue. Don't let her stop and stand, keep her feet moving, but if she starts to goof off, make her move in a small circle so you keep control of her.





I have a mare with a strong buck tendency, and I have to stay very alert to avoid being thrown. I can never find a reason for it, it is just her attitude at certain unpredictable moments. I ride her in a shanked bit with a snaffle type mouthpiece (like an Argentine snaffle) so that I have the curb strap tightening if I pull back on the reins and it usually stops her right in the middle of whatever buck or rear she was thinking of doing. If you do switch bits, ride on a nice loose rein unless she tries bucking...then one good pull on the reins helps remind her that you are the one calling the shots, and she'd better behave.





Good luck, and don't get hurt. Since you don't own this horse, maybe start looking for one that is more enjoyable to ride. I'm keeping my mare....we just have to put up with each other!





**Edit: I just read the additional details you posted, and I think your trainer should ride this horse if she thinks she's so great, and you ought to demand a different horse or go elsewhere for lessons. JMO, but if the trainer is making all the rules: no changing this, no doubling her or small circles, canter through, yada-yada....and you are PAYING for this kind of ride, it just doesn't make sense. It's like paying for a potential injury...if you aren't allowed to make some changes in your riding to prevent this horse from bucking or get her to settle down, then definitely stop taking lessons with this trainer and/or horse. It's just a potential danger, and if you're scared and dreading it, there's no way your riding is going to stay positive and progressing. Good luck.
Reply:I would say theres only so much you can do, especially not being her owner. I would get together with her owner and see if you can come together on some idea's to calm her down, maybe with some ground work. It's definitly not worth losing your confidence over, you need to work on her before she starts working on you.
Reply:I have the exact same issue, but the story is a little different. I have a 7 year old TB/Paint mare. She's always had a problem with bucking and running off - purely from a fright issue. She hasn't internal confidence in herself, she's not a dominant horse and she's destroyed my own confidence.





I wouldn't say I'm a professional by any means either, but I've spent 41 years in the saddle, I'm not a novice. However, I will tell you what I've learned:





The horse needs a confident leader. If you can't become that confident, consistent leader, you need to not ride her further endangering her confidence and possibly her safety. I once thought that I could ride anything - I've broken horses from bucking before, but they were ones that just did it because they'd learned their rider would then give up - it wasn't a defense mechanism, just a test that took many bucks to break them of it.





I am going to send my horse to a trainer this spring that specializes in de-spooking. He works the horse with cows and dogs and sheep and everything they need to build self confidence, then confidence in a trainer, then we'll work together to build confidence in each other. I don't believe riding discipline is important - confidence and trust is the same no matter the tack or place.





Unfortunately, since this is the first youngster I've attempted to start on my own, I made some bad decisions about trainers. I sent her to one who lied to me about the time he spent with her and how she got exercised, then I took her to a person that simply couldn't get bucked off - a jockey that also broke horses, he taught her simply that she couldn't throw him and forced her to do what he wanted, he didn't build her confidence. Then I took her to another trainer who rode her, but didn't teach er anything and certainly didn't build her confidence. Finally, last spring I took her to an ol' cowboy who really worked with her to build her confidence, it worked quite well, he and I rode together successfully and he even took her on a 3-day ride at which she rode like an ol' pro. But when I brought her home and attempted riding in our field where the deer and pheasants and coons play, a deer rustled the grass one day behind her and she was off like a shot. I called that ol' cowboy and he said "that's why I talk loudly all the time to spook up whatever is out there that will scare 'em." So he didn't teach her what to do when she was afraid, he just made sure whatever would make her afraid didn't show up.





They and we need the proper time together - I am going to try having someone else build her confidence and teach her how to handle her fear. Then I'm going to work with him and her to learn how to react as he does to keep her confidence and hopefully build it over time - but it will take lots of time and money - he's 2+ hours away, and I'm willing to make that investment to have a great horse and a great relationship with her.





Since this horse isn't yours and you likely don't want to invest such time and money into her, maybe this is a time to walk away from something before you or she gets hurt. Honestly, if you can't do good for her, you're doing her harm - if she's truly afraid of boogey men, and you can't teach her not to be, she'll get worse and worse. If she's using boogeymen as an excuse not to do what you want her to do (which might be the problem) and you can't correct this, she'll get worse and worse also.





However, what if you look at it as a growth and learning opportunity for yourself? Have you got access to another trainer skilled in the ways a horses' mind works that can work with you and she maybe an hour a week or month giving you help to work on specific things - then you can correct the problem while building your ability as a true horseperson.





Just some opinions, ideas and experience to share - that's what we're all here for isn't it?
Reply:Try using a pully-rein (one hand on the neck, cross the other over) and leaning back to slow her down. Once she knows she can run, she will only either get more bratty or more agrivated. Stop her, back her up, calm her down by talking to her.


If there's anything in particular that scares her (mirrors, dark places, etc.) get her used to them. Although it may seem "unpredictible" horses usually do things for a reason. Find out what's bothering her. Maybe her bridle isn't adjusted right, or your saddle pad slipped. Maybe she is deathly afraid of a particular part of your ring. Check her tack over and look for a pattern.
Reply:Do you know if she was like it when she was younger?





There could be many things that are wrong with her, teeth, back, maybe ask the owner if she has had any past problems and to maybe check everything is okay with a vet also as she isnt the youngest of horses age can sometimes have an effect on the horse.
Reply:There's nothing more scary than a runaway horse that will throw in a buck to boot. But, horses are not stupid. Perhaps she is un-confident, needing further training, developed a physical problem, like a sore back, sore mouth etc or maybe she doesn't have any fun out there either %26amp; or doesn't trust her rider. After-all, riding is a 2 way street, it works both ways. I know, that isn't usually something you want to hear :)





Has this behaviour just started or did your friend purchase the horse with these issues?





Is your friend as an experienced rider as you?





Is this happening in an arena or out on the trail?





I think you'll find the answer if you start to use the process of elimination. Which means that there are tons of reasons a horse starts to act this way.





I'd have a checklist something like the following, but I'd certainly check that it isn't something physical for sure:





Expected to be ridden differently by different riders.


Trainer rides one way, owner rides another way so she's having to figure out the answer when you ask her to do something.


Saddle pinches


Sore back.


Sore mouth, may need a dentist


Bit is the wrong size/type/pinches the mouth.


Not enough exercise for feed she's receiving.


Not enough exercise.


etc, I think you get the picture.





As soon as you feel her getting tense, would be the time to shut her down, or even get off her, before she even got to canter. Then you may be able to figure why she got tense in the first place %26amp; is reacting by running off %26amp; bucking.





Maybe you could keep her feet busy when she gets tense by asking her to turn on the forehand, on the haunches, go sideways, do something else so she has think.





Round pen work is always good too. Or working in a smaller area so that you can have more control over her.





Otherwise, do you really want to ride a horse like this :)


Stay safe


Nic
Reply:Several years ago there was a top event woman in Great Brittian who was riding a young horse with alot of skill but alot of attitude,on top of it all. This rider was a small woman, only just over 100 pounds, and horse was big, strong and full of himself. She eventually sold him to another eventer who went on and had a fabulous show record with the horse.


If a talented, world class eventer can realize that some horses just don't suit, even though they have tons of talent, then surely those more average people like us can do the same!


Some horses are just not worth the hassle. You don't own this horse and you don't have anything invested except maybe your pride. Why are you sticking with her?


I won't talk training issues about this horse. She is 17. She isn't green. She is being riden with a trainer. And she still has constant and dangerous attitudes. Why put one more second of riding into her?


If you owned her then you'd be stuck, trying to train this out of her so you could resell her and try to get some money back. But you have no financial commitment.


I don't know about you - but as an adult I have a job and a family that needs me. If I am hurt, even if its not serious, I am unable to work for a while. I can't do the things I need to do at home. I can't afford that sort of thing. I would not continue to ride a horse that was at risk of hurting me.


Riding is my joy and fun. I am willing to ride young horses and their on and off silliness. I do all my own training, so that means that I will get bucked and shied off now and then. But that green stage is temporary, and if I had a really difficult or problem young horse, I'd sell it and cut my loses, anyhow. The good ones come around before long and are worth my effort and risks.


Once riding a certain horse becomes stressful and hurts you confidence, then it isn't fun anymore. Has it occured to you that your body is trying to tell your brain something? Your body is saying - no more riding this horse.


I would listen if I was you.


Otherwise you'll have no one to blame when the day comes that she throws you, or worse yet, panics and does some serious damage while running through a fence.
Reply:Sounds like the mare has issues. If she is making you question your abilities then I would ride a different horse or find a more suitable job. She also could deal with another bit so you have more control. Draw reins sound like an excuse not the reason for the rubber mouth snaffle. I use draw reins often and a twisted wire snaffle for training. I ride mostly with a curb. And don't have any of those problems. For horses that buck if you can ride them out use a quirt and work them over. After the first time and if they think you mean business they stop trying you. Don't try this if you might get hurt...they buck harder or stop. I usually stop a horse before it starts buck. Lunge the snot out of her before each ride also. Get her mind to working before you start. Best of luck.



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